Police Taser 12 Year Old Girl

[SyntaxHeir]

Oh this is classy.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/wlwt/20050908/lo_wlwt/2925190


Police said the principal called them when the girl refused to go to class. When officers [plural] arrived, they had trouble bringing the girl[singular], who is 5 feet 5 inches tall and 120 pounds, under control. Officers [plural] said they warned the girl [singular] several times that they would use the Taser on her if she did not calm down.


Mother, should I trust the government?

[Ayla]

ok, well... First, being the mother of a once rebelious teenage daughter, i know how wiley they can get when cornered and have a pretty good idea of what these officers (plural) were facing.

Now, that being said, using a weapon that has killed grown men might not have been the best choice. When i try to imagine the situation tho, what other options do the officers have? Man handle her bodily to the ground? Hit her with their billy club? Walk away and let her win? I'm just not sure what better option there is.

Trust me, an out of control teenage girl can be as scary as a man peaking on PCP!

[SyntaxHeir]

I would go with the "wrestle her to the ground" option.

It's called escalation of force. If she is resisting arrest and wants to get rowdy with the police then the police have every right to get rowdy back. They should NOT immediately jump to using a taser just because it's easier.

[Ayla]

well, I have read a few stories on how 'dangerous' the tasers can be but do we really know all the stats? Maybe the taser option wasnt chosen because of the ease of it but perhaps it might be the safer option, opposed to getting physical... especially when you take a trained officer up against a little girl, the chance of her getting hurt might have been much higher. (as you can see, these are pure speculations on my part)

[SyntaxHeir]

Now, that being said, using a weapon that has killed grown men might not have been the best choice.

...

Maybe the taser option wasnt chosen because of the ease of it but perhaps it might be the safer option, opposed to getting physical... especially when you take a trained officer up against a little girl, the chance of her getting hurt might have been much higher.


Speculative and contradictory! :p

[Ayla]

Point made, altho I have also pointed out that i have only read the stories about their dangers and none on the full stats of the tool/weapon. We have all read the stories on how airbags can decapitate, altho they are still considered safety tools in vehicles.

[SyntaxHeir]

So I'm confused, are you in favor of the tazer or not?

A tazer, as we agree, may or may not cause serious harm or even death.

I would suggest that two grown men would be able to physically subdue a teenage girl withouth causing serious harm or death.

Sounds to me the cops just didn't want to get their hands dirty.

[Ayla]

So I'm confused, are you in favor of the tazer or not?


well, Yes and no. my limited knowledge of it through news stories etc have me afraid of it. But my faith in statistics, data and *hangs head* common sense, makes me think it was the logical choice. I would not want any grown man wrestling my 12 year old to the ground. As a parent i think the 'bodily restraining' might have angered me more than the tasering.

[SyntaxHeir]

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Having been a victim of both,I would choose wrestling over electrocution. Pain compliance techniques are very effecitve and do not cause any long term harm. But maybe that's just me.

You can demonstrate on yourself by pressing firmly the septum of your nose with the heel of your hand, or dig two fingers sharply underneath your mandible.

[Kitz E Kat]

Forget about the taser gun , that's just insane.
What interest's me more is that in the US it you refuse to go into class they call the cops !
And your guy's want to spread "democracy" to the world !

It's just so funny , over here in undemocratic part's of the world we would just call the child's parents , not the SWAT squad :-)

God bless America :-)

[SyntaxHeir]

Forget about the taser gun , that's just insane.
What interest's me more is that in the US it you refuse to go into class they call the cops !
And your guy's want to spread "democracy" to the world !

It's just so funny , over here in undemocratic part's of the world we would just call the child's parents , not the SWAT squad :-)

God bless America :-)

Shhhh.... quiet dear, hush now.
Just sit back and allow us to take care of you. We know what's best. After all it's a government by the people for the people. We have only your best interest in mind.
Don't worry your pretty little head over what happens behind the red, white and blue curtain.

[Kitz E Kat]

Forgive me Syntax , i just can't take this story seriously, it's just so mad !

I honestly can't believe this happened, the very idea of calling the cops to "sort" out a student is insane, shooting them is just crazy !
If it happened here , which it would'nt , the principle and the cops would be on welfare by now , pending charges .....
No disrespect Ayla , but to even try justify calling the law and using force on a student is utter madness.You call the parent's and sort it out , not the law.

You really are living in a police state , no doubt's about it.

Enjoy !

[SyntaxHeir]

My dear Sir!

Are you suggesting people *actually* take responsibility for their children!?
Do you mean to imply that people should have some sort of responsibility for themselves?

Such hubris to think we should be forced to cope for ourselves with out the caring assistance of the benevolent and loving government! Who will protect us from ourselves? Why do you hate children? Why do you hate America?

I offer this warning only once, should you EVER again utter your self sufficient madness here I shall have to ask you to step outside!

[Kitz E Kat]

I shall have to ask you to step outside!
And what if i refuse ? What are you gonna do , call the cops :-)

[SyntaxHeir]

I'll tell the feds on you!!

You big meanie!

Give me Liberty or give me... whatever else ya got...

[Kitz E Kat]

I guess if Alice Cooper was to re-release "School's out" he would be declared an enemy of the people and shot , not with a lamer taser but with a proper gun :-)

Or if Pink Floyd re-released "The wall" , with the line "we don't need no education" they would be dispatched to Guantanamo bay without recourse to legal aid :-)

What happen's if you skip school for the day? Heaven forbid! Do they send out a hit man to get ya ? Hunt ya down like a dog , "dead or alive your goin to school today little lady, your call, make my day" :-)

[Radical Ed]

alice cooper is good
we have taser gun we use 4 fun verry chep 2 get
1 nite we use on gay men wen they have sex verry funny 2 c
thanks

[Rikku]

Hilarious Ed...do you live in a cave?

[Radical Ed]

no do u Q
we have house power all things here u think ur smart
u live in place run by old woman
dats gay

[Rikku]

Yeah, poor me! And where is it you live then? Or is that top secret due to the fact you are the 1337357 I)00I) evah? Pwn3d!

[Radical Ed]

peopl want me so i not say where i live
dis is not good 2 say
i not live in place wit old woman is the boss

[Ayla]

Forgive me Syntax , i just can't .....
No disrespect Ayla , but .... You call the parent's and sort it out , not the law.
I love how polite you Europeans are! You are practically Canadians! But honestly, I totally agree with you Kitz. The parents should take the responsibility. Sadly, North America does not enforce this responsibility on the parents. And we all know, if its not enforced BY LAW then it pretty much is just not done at all. Expecting parents (people in general) to use common sense might be too much to ask for. Now I understand that I am contradicting myself, again… but police are ‘trained’ to have and utilize common sense, the average human is not.

[Kitz E Kat]

I love how polite you Europeans are!
When i was in Michigan , every time a waitress would bring something over to my table i would say "thank you" she would reply "uh huh" ????
WTF is that about !
First time i heard this i figured "she is one ignorant bitch" ! , but it was universall , every where you went "uh huh" was as good as it got !

Can't comment on the rest of the US , ain't been there, Canada was "normal" , they replied "no problem" or the god awfull "your welcome" , which sound's so phoney i would rather the genuine "uh huh" to the "your welcome sir" with that air of "i don't give a fuck if you live or die, just tip me" :-)

There ya go, sorry about that :-)

[Ayla]

*laughs* yes I do agree that some 'politeness' does not always come with sincerity but I'll still take it over being ignored or shunned. Ever try to ask someone the time while walking down a large city street in the U.S.? Sometimes they just look at you like you are a crazy person spewing religious quotes!

[Kitz E Kat]

Ever try to ask someone the time while walking down a large city street in the U.S.?
No, but i did stop asking people for direction's, they would look at me like i was some mugger or something , ignore me and keep on walking quickly !
I am a speckie eyed geek , as far from a mugger as you could get !
Sure go into a shop/store and ask for directions, no problem there, but not on the street.

I guess people don't like to talk to stranger's on the street in the US, it's a national pastime here :-)

[Radical Ed]

peopl ask 4 helpz we send dem to bar wit gay s in and c dem come out verry quickly wit funny look
dis is fun
thanks

[maryjane]

Since when can't one policeman grab the arm and hold a 12 year old kid? What a couple of pussys! Grab that kid, march her out to the police car, take her ass to the cop shop and call her parents. Tasering her was just bullshit.

[Kitz E Kat]

Since when can't one policeman grab the arm and hold a 12 year old kid? What a couple of pussys! Grab that kid, march her out to the police car, take her ass to the cop shop and call her parents. Tasering her was just bullshit.

Since when is not wanting to attend class a criminal offense ?
Is this the new world order , are we gonna have jail's full off kid's not wanting to attend class !
Great, what happen's if they don't do their homework , shoot the fucker's ?
King Herrod would be proud :-)

[MrsMo]

Actually, refusing to go to school IS against the law - truancy. I don't know why the police were called in the first place, maybe she was throwing a fit in the office. While I think the police went WAY overboard tasering the girl, I read something recently that may explain why they were afraid to actually touch the girl. From news of the weird (I love that site):
Not so lucky was Fitzroy Barnaby of Evanston, Ill., who angrily grabbed the arm of a 14-year-old girl whom he almost ran into as she was playing dangerously in traffic. He was convicted under the state's "restraining a minor" statute, which requires that its violators be listed as sex offenders (even though the trial judge and, in June, the state Appellate Court, both discounted any sexual motive).People have gone overboard everywhere "protecting" children to the point where you can not touch them at all. If I grab an unrelated child's arm to keep them from stepping out in front of a speeding truck, could I be charged? It's frightening.

[Kitz E Kat]

Actually, refusing to go to school IS against the law - truancy.
It's against the law here to, and proper order , but we don't call the cop's with gun's and taser's and arrest the kid, what are you gonna do then?

Bang the kid up for 10 to 20 in the state penn without parole because he/she rufused to attend history class or something ....

A less dramatic approach would go a lot further, one must ask the question why did the child not want to attend class , no doubt there was a reason, and a solution that did not require a taser gun !

It's a bit mad, "i will educate you , even if i have to put a gun to your head, you will learn about freedom, and democracy , even if i have to kill ya".

[SyntaxHeir]

@Mrs. Mo

I'd like to hear the particulars of that case. It mentions he "angrily" grabbed her arm. What happened in the moments following would be crucial to getting nailed with the "restraining a minor" law. I doubt he pulled her from the street and then let go. I would go so fas as to guess there was some lecturing and even a bit of "angry" shaking to emphasize the point.

[MrsMo]

@Mrs. Mo

I'd like to hear the particulars of that case. It mentions he "angrily" grabbed her arm. What happened in the moments following would be crucial to getting nailed with the "restraining a minor" law. I doubt he pulled her from the street and then let go. I would go so fas as to guess there was some lecturing and even a bit of "angry" shaking to emphasize the point.I am sure you're right. I think I found this article so disturbing because it was preceeded by one where a man was arrested because of pictures showing him "playfully kissing his nude toddler's bellybutton." This man was only released after 6 months of protests by family and neighbors. Police officers have to be even more aware of the current climate regarding handling children than the average citizen, thus more fearful of being even suspected of touching one improperly.

[=BB=]

How authority deals with children is a pretty good measure of the values and sanity of that culture:

SECRET AGENTS AUTHORS OF MASSACRE


Four military police who are members of the secret service have
been named as the authors of the massacre of street children which
occurred in the early hours of July 23, according to an internal
investigation carried out by the General Command in Rio de Janeiro.


Those allegedly responsible belong to the Reserve Service of the
Fourth Battalion of the Military Police, known as P-2, but their
identities were not given out.


According to the investigation, the police acted on their own,and the massacre was in revenge for the breaking of a windshield on a
policecar which was attacked by children on the afternoon of July
23. The children were trying to prevent the arrest of a child who
was caught in possession of cans of glue which is used as a
hallucinogen.


The institutes Command established that the two vehicles used by
the killers, a taxi and a car, were part of the secret service car
pool.

About 100 children are murdered each month in the streets of rio de janeiro and sao paulo by 'extermination squads', according to researchers in the two cities.


Here in Toronto any cop who tassered an unarmed individual, regardless of age, would have a big problem. Canada is far from perfect, but the police are usually courteous and helpful - even in the face of provocation. I am not a big cop fan, but our constables look and act pretty professional most of the time.

Why can't they throw a net over some poor nutter?

keepin it real cheers

[SyntaxHeir]

About 100 children are murdered each month in the streets of rio de janeiro and sao paulo by 'extermination squads', according to researchers in the two cities.


It's not just the kids either, it's the poor and undesirables. I remember reading in sociology about Rio where, once a year, the cops would patrol the streets executing these poor wrecks followed by 5 ton trucks and crews who would load the bodies into the back. I didn't belive it when I read it, I asked around and did some research and most of what I found dates back to the late 80's early 90's but it certainly *did* happen, if it's still not happening today.

[Daremo]

How authority deals with children is a pretty good measure of the values and sanity of that cultureYa know Canada is awfully close to the U.S.....Are you *certain* that you guys don't have any WMD?? You guys talk that frog talk up there and them snail-eaters didn't support the war on terrorism....You guys might be terrorist collaborators.

We might have to go to Canada and liberate all that beer. Remember --- GWB is watching you.

Suspicious cheers

[=BB=]

(@ Daremo: Good stuff, LMAO . . But all that biz about our beer, I think your beer and ours have become more or less the same over the past decade.
Just invade us for the sheer fun of it - couldn’t take more than a couple of days and we wouldn’t blow anything up - too fackin polite, eh?)

Canada is "lucky we allow them to exist on the same continent" -Ann Coulter

Yesh, without the U.S. we would be like a fish without a bicycle or journalism without Ann Coulter.


An American journalist once asked Mohandas Ghandi “What is your opinion of American civilization?”

A smiling Ghandi replied,“ I think it would be an excellent idea“


Bush opened the letter and it appeared to contain a coded message:
370HSSV-0773H
Bush was baffled, so he typed it out and emailed it to Colin Powell. Colin and his aides had no clue either so they sent it to the CIA. No one could solve it so it went to the NSA and then to MIT and NASA and the Secret Service.
Eventually they asked Canada's RCMP for help. The RCMP cabled the White House: "Tell the President he is looking at the message upside down."


Weird ass canuck cheers!

[Kitz E Kat]

Hmmmmm... it would seem at this remove that there is a degree of "friction" between the US and Canada :-)

[=BB=]

Oh my goodness, KK, how could you suggest such a terrible thing?
I think the truth is most Canadians can relate to most folks living in the States, and vice-versa. Lucky for us here in Canada, U.S. citizens forget we are here most of the time.

Here's a clue:

In its country profile of Canada, the U.S. State Department website says: The bilateral relationship between the United States and Canada is perhaps the closest and most extensive in the world. It is reflected in the staggering volume of trade--the equivalent of over $1 billion a day in goods, services, and investment income--and people, more than 200 million a year crossing the U.S.-Canadian border. In fields ranging from law enforcement cooperation to environmental cooperation to free trade, the two countries have set the standard by which many other countries measure their own progress.






subversive cheers

[Kitz E Kat]

So why do the Canadian's look upon American's as lesser people , and why do American's seem to think that Canadian's are a bunch of gay whimps ?
That's the vibe i got when i was there .


I could quote trade figure's here too ! Ireland's biggest trade partner is the UK, but there has ,and with some people still some degree of "friction" to.
Trade is one thing , i do business with people i have little respect for , but hey it's businees that's all, i don't have to like the SOB's :-)
Trade figure's mean nothin !

Just askin that's all :-)

[=BB=]

Gay wimps and lesser people . . sounds like a movement! Yeah, for sure Canada and the U.S. are not the same country, and the two political climates move sometimes closer and sometimes further apart.

The thinking of the Bush administration is out of step with most of the civilized world in several regards.And of course the whole neo-con thing is pumped further by the 911 tragedy. Canada is sympathetic, but not directly involved.

Canada and the U.S. are accidents of history, like all else, and will run their course.

Gay people and lesser wimps has a nice ring . . new group perhaps?

taser every living thing cheers!

[SyntaxHeir]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1186575


Normally, a fight between two children over a pacifier might be resolved by their mothers. But in Pawtucket, the police had to step in. It all started Monday afternoon, when a 6-year-old boy dropped a pacifier.