Resistance is futile...

[SyntaxHeir]

... you will be liberated.

Again I was torn on whether to post this here in Politics or in Hades. I actually would like to debate the concept illustrated here so Politics it is.

What are your thoughts on this picture and my comment? [above]

http://syntaxheir.org/temp/free-logo.gif

[MrsMo]

I keep coming back to this post, thinking about what I want to say. Partly I'm offended because I think "My government wouldn't do this!" But then I reconsider and think that perhaps I'm being naive. And that makes me sad, because what that says is I can't trust my government to not force it's ideals on other people who may not want them. It doesn't matter that I think democracy is the best governmental system -- the fact that I believe it is means that I also believe a majority of people in any country should be able to determine the kind of govenment they want.

[relik]

I agree Mrs. Mo. I don't think we should for ideals on another country and that it should be their own choice to decide what government is theirs. It isn't our country or countries and we have no right to invade on other peoples beliefs and governments.

I do however think that its our job to ensure that the U.S will remain what it is, a free nation at whatever costs. If that means we have to go into another country to ensure that then I'm all for it.

As for the picture, I'm use to the fact that we aren't exactly looked highly upon in the world right now. I do however think that will change once things look brightly in Iraq. I do however think the majority of our critism was based upon scandals and corruption in other governments trying to make more of a buck being against us then doing the right thing.

Obviously my views are a bit different being in the military due to the fact I have to follow orders regardless if I agree with them or not (as long as they are lawful). I do however think that if there is a brutal dicator that kills people like its cool then we should do something about it. Now I don't believe it should be our responsbility alone, I think that if the world was full of more "decent" people we wouldn't have this problem. If every country in the world was like, Iraq your wrong fix it or we will. I think they might have changed their attitude. Instead we had conflicts, threatens of vetos and other politcal bias based on making more money for themselves.

I do think that, if the U.S were to take it upon themselves to "cleanse" this world. Then we would fail miserably. Its true during the cold war era we wanted to cleanse the world of the communist faction, but I think we have learned from our prior mistakes and have no problems with a communist nation as long as it doesnt affect us as a nation. What I mean by that is, as long as we are not threatened by suicide bombers and men killing children in our malls or the threat of another 9/11 we would be fine.

I seem to remember it being pretty damn calm after desert storm/shield minus a few bombings. We don't want war, we don't welcome war, we hate war, but if it threatens our way of life in our own nation then we will make war.

ReL

[SyntaxHeir]

We don't want war, we don't welcome war, we hate war, but if it threatens our way of life in our own nation then we will make war.


I like your post Relik and I agree with most of it. I'd ask you one question however, and don't take this as a personal assault, I ask this to everyone:

Why is our way of life more important than the next?

Concerning the above statement, how does that make us any better than the Romans? Granted we don't "take over" the countries or "conquer" them but we certainly do "occupy" them for who knows how long.

Didn't Hitler try the same thing? Making war on those who "threatened the Aryan way of life?" Isn't that what the Klan is all about? "Clensing the heritic Jew and inhuman black"?

What if the Chinese made the same statement? What if they said "We're going to make war on anyone who threatens communism and total dictatorships"?

[Kitz E Kat]

The perception , which i must say i tend to agree with to an extent is that , the US will bring democracy to you if you got the buck's to pay.

Nobody wake's up in the whitehouse and thinks "shit, look at these people in Sudan, and the terrible plight they find themselves in, let's bring them some freedom" , nah , that don't and will never happen.

It's "does the "situation" in Sudan have any impact on us" ,if yes, what can we do about it, if no, forget Sudan" that's the reality.

And before you think i am a US basher, all major government's of the world operate in exactly the same way, if there is nothing in it for them , they can all go feck off.

The difference is, other government's of the world ain't shouting about bringing freedom to those that need it, the reality is quite different.

If the US government called it what it is, an investment in it's own future , rather than the dubious claim of "bringing freedom" to those that need it, people may actually respect that a little more, well i would !

Good luck :)

[SyntaxHeir]

Bahhh.. you took the wind outta me sails. I was all ready to unload on the first person who made a "but they were suffering and we helped them" remark.

I've been pre-emptively deflamed!

Thanks a lot Kitz, you flame retardant you. :p