Should LSD Tea Be Legal?

[=BB=]

Should an LSD-like tea be made legal for a small church in the U.S.? Didja know peyote is legal already for native believers there? The Bush administration says it is barred by the 1971 Convention on Psychotrophic Substances, designed to stem drug trafficking. That is the same agreement that has Canada being bullied into keeping weed laws.

Here's the article:

From correspondents in Washington
02nov05

AN obscure religious sect today pleaded with the US Supreme Court not to ban the import of hoasca, a hallucinogenic tea, from Brazil for sacred use in its rituals.

The nine Supreme Court justices must decide whether to side with the US Government, which argues the tea is harmful, could be diverted to recreational drug users and is barred by an international treaty.

Or they may hold that a 1993 US law on religious freedom means that the church, O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal, (UDV) deserve an exception for the tea which believers feel brings them closer to God.

The church is an unusual mix of Christian and indigenous South American spiritual beliefs, and has around 130 members in the United States.

UDV rituals involve sipping hoasca tea, made from the roots of two indigenous Amazonian plants, in communion.

The case arose in 1999 when US customs officers intercepted a shipment of brewed hoasca liquid from Brazil.

136 litres was seized from the home of Jeffrey Bronfman, the head of the church's American chapter and a member of the famed Canadian whisky making business family.

The US Government argues that the tea should not be allowed into the United States because it is a health risk, it could be diverted to non religious users and it is barred by the 1971 Convention on Psychotrophic Substances, designed to stem drug trafficking.

But lawyers for the UDV disputed that the treaty covers hoasca, argued the substance had never been passed to outsiders and said US religious laws meant the church should be allowed to use the tea.

Justice Antonin Scalia pointed out that Congress has the right to override a treaty through domestic law - in this case, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, enacted in 1999.

"Isn't it well established that statutes trump treaties?" he asked.

But Edwin Kneedler, the US deputy Solicitor General arguing for the Government, said that the United States could not simply opt out of the 1971 protocol, if it wanted other states to crack down on drugs trafficking.

"I believe that complying with an international convention designed to prohibit the trafficking in drugs is in itself a compelling interest," he said.


and the pursuit of happiness cheers!

[.UrBaNn]

Are we talking about drugs on the tea?

Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal, (UDV) deserve an exception for the tea which believers feel brings them closer to God.

I heard about LSD but not LSD Tea .LSD is under the heavy drugs so possibly that's why the believers think they come closer to God.. probably halucionating..

[SyntaxHeir]

" The US Government argues that the tea should not be allowed into the United States because it is a health risk."


Okay, I had to stop reading right there. Are we going to outlaw everything that may be a health risk? How about we start with war, that seems to be unhealthy. Then we'll move onto outlawing cheeseburgers as heart disease is the number one killer of Americans each year. BAN THE BURGER!

As per usual, my opinion is the feds should STFU and only get involved if somebody actually needs their input. Sipping tea and communing with God isn't a crime. If you then go out and shoot up a bus load of people, then we'll arrest you. Until then, you're free to drink all the herbal tea you desire.

[Daremo]

OK -- This isn't LSD tea. This is a psychotropic substance in the plants from which the tea is made. It is not Lysergic Acid Diethylamide, which is made, in part, from ergotine tartrate which is made from ergot, a wheat derivitive.

In the middle ages wheat would partly rot/ferment and the result was a weak LSD. Individuals and families would get an inadvertant buzz on this. This led to the idea of witches, evil spirits and so forth cursing these people.

This substance is similar, but not LSD. Many indigineous people have used psychotropic substances in religeous ceremonies, some are just more potent than others. Some Native Americans use peyote and mescal; In the Middle East there's Hashish; and Christians use wine. This isn't a new idea.

American religeous freedom allows the Native American to continue his legal commune with his God. I do not see this as any different.

[Kitz E Kat]

I agree let them have their "tea" , i like a nice cup of tea myself :-)
Can't people have fun anymore ?
The world is becoming a harder place to live in , we need more fun is what i say :-)

[SyntaxHeir]

You can keep your wine and keep your tay.
My curse on him, who gives me coffee.
I'll have porter if I may,
It makes me feel content and happy.

[=BB=]

Agreed KK, but did you catch this:
136 litres was seized from the home of Jeffrey Bronfman, the head of the church's American chapter and a member of the famed Canadian whisky making business family.

The fackin Bronfmans got started with Al Capone and supplied his warehouses with Canadian Whisky during prohibition . . I'm not shook, but why the hell does a super rich business monkey want 136 litres of some rare Brazilian LSD tea???

Maybe he wz gonna put it in the water supply? A breally big Halloween punch bowl?

Me, i think drug use is not properly a legal matter, but one of health. If many folks feel the need to self medicate, perhaps that says something about the stress of day-to-day life?

never inhaled cheers!

[MrsMo]

I wonder what a "dose" of the brew is? 136 liters, even for a whole congregation, seems like overkill. A steady stream of just enough to satisfy their religeous ceremony probably wouldn't have caused any uproar, but stockpiling enough to satisfy a medium city does make me wonder just how sincere this guy is about just keeping it for their ceremonies.

[Kitz E Kat]

I wonder what a "dose" of the brew is? 136 liters, even for a whole congregation, seems like overkill. A steady stream of just enough to satisfy their religeous ceremony probably wouldn't have caused any uproar, but stockpiling enough to satisfy a medium city does make me wonder just how sincere this guy is about just keeping it for their ceremonies.

Perhaps he was just anticipating a storm or something.
Could be shipping charge's are much cheaper if you bulk buy.
Also could be that he got mega discount on the bulk purchase.
Maybe there was a deal "order over 100 liters and get a free T-shirt !
He could have been under the influence of his "tea" when placing the order, and he really only wanted 1.36 liters :-)
Perhaps God told him to order the 136 liters , which make's it OK, can't argue with the big G !
Really I am sure there is a totally innocent explanation for this :-)
As if .........

[TreeFrog]

On a point of health what would be a Recommended daily allowance (RDA) of the Tea.
And what would be the RDA of the air in any capital City or even the water. Or how about RedBull the energy drink(one can is already too much) or on the subject of drink....
Well you see my point I expect.
We exercise freedom of choice and give guidelines for many other things. We even charge tax for them too. So why not another one. It is not going to make the Air any worse .. but perhaps recycled city water.. In line with the LSD witch story, apparently, if a dog was to eat a bread made from the mold infected rye and then a drink was made from the dogs piss and it might still have enough sting in it to get a "witch" to start the whole flying about the place thing.

[SyntaxHeir]

Are you suggesting people drink moldy dog urine?

[Kitz E Kat]

Are you suggesting people drink moldy dog urine?
You yanks drink it all the time ! Budweiser :-)

[duder]

You yanks drink it all the time ! Budweiser :-)


i always thought budweiser was horse piss.... i stand corrected!! :P

regardless, i stand by my earlier statements along the line of "drugs are bad, don't be a fucking idiot, stay away from 'em.." moldy dog urine to be included.

peace,

duder

[MrsMo]

i always thought budweiser was horse piss.... i stand corrected!! :P

regardless, i stand by my earlier statements along the line of "drugs are bad, don't be a fucking idiot, stay away from 'em.." moldy dog urine to be included.

peace,

duderAh, but the question still remains - should drugs be illegal?

[Kitz E Kat]

I would be a rich cat if i could answer that question !
I am not sure , one the one hand , yeah they should be legal, and why not?
Alcohol is a drug and is legal, it's a mind altering substance , no different than hash or whatever your having yourself.
If it was legal then you remove the criminal element and can regulate the quality of the drug, making it safer to use.
Old ladie's won't get mugged by a junkie looking for money to get a fix, crime will go down , life would be good !

But then , on the other hand, do we really wan't heroin available in the local store, this will give the clear message that it's pretty cool to do heroin, which is a fuck up of a drug , equally coke, LSD etc , do differ from alcohol. They are more addictive than alcohol and can be taken in larger quantities in a short period of time than alcohol , hence more self control is required , something you don't really have when your stoned :-)
We know what society is like with drug's banned, question is what would it be like with drug's legal ?
Would people that now don't do drug's do drug's when made legal ? I don't really know, I suspect largly not.

As an ex 24/7 drug fueled kat , I would suggest that it's not a great idea, the long term misuse of drug's is not conducive to a productive life, at least not for me.
Then some people don't have nothing, clearly a good hit is a nice way to pass the day , why not let then have it ?


It's a hard question Mrs Mo !

[GrowMoreWeed]

Hi folks. I finally made it over from Hacker Heaven and Asta!

I think this is just another exampleof the American government's "War on some drugs" (see google). The politicians bitch about "drugs" over their whiskey and cigars. Who sponsors these hipocrites? Oh, the tobacco and alcohol companies. At the end of the day, we don't make our laws on drugs based on how dangerous they are, it depends on our societies view of them. Alcohol was the big evil once but now you can buy it in any corner shop.

People need to listen to SyntaxHeir and learn some tolerance, live and let live.

While you're at it, Grow More Weed ;)

[Kitz E Kat]

Welcome GMW :-)
Nice to see you here.

[SyntaxHeir]

Ah, but the question still remains - should drugs be illegal?

In my opinion, yes. Drugs should be illegal. However, we have to make it very clear, if you get doped up out of your mind and hurt someone or some*thing* we WILL NOT accept intoxication as an excuse. No temporary insanity or any of that garbage either. Just like drunk driving, you get nailed to the wall.


We know what society is like with drug's banned, question is what would it be like with drug's legal ?

In the U.S. drug prohibition is relatively new. It wasn't long ago when there was no such thing as illegal drugs. In fact, some of the first drug laws were created to keep the Chinese from running opium dens in SF. Thus, drugs laws started out of prejudice not "the best interest" of the citizens. There is quite a controversy of the whole "Opium ban" suffice it to say, opium was banned for similar reasons pot was banned. It was cutting into the profits of people with political influence. [Well that and the law makers were convinced the Chinese were luring white women into their dens to drug and rape them.]

To answer your question, I don't think life would change drastically at all. If Proctor and Gamble were allowed to make "clean" heroine, put it in a capsule, add a recommended dosage and sell it at the local market you'd see, as you suggested, crime and overdosage drop. Which in turn would keep people out of jails and hospitals.

After alcohol prohibition ended there was a spike in consumption then it tapered off. [I imagine quite a few hangovers had something to do with that.] I seriously doubt if drugs were legalized we have mindless zombies wandering the streets commiting vandalisim and violent crime. It didn't happen after alcohol prohibition.

"OMFG!!! If you legalize alcohol children will be passed out drunk in teh streetz! Oh noess!!!1!!"

Fewer people in jail, fewer people in the ER, the end of drug dealer and drug turf warfare, the end of exploding meth labs, the end of millions of dollars wasted trying to stop the Columbians, additional tax revenue [the "good" kind, voluntary].

Also before I step down from my soap box, I would add, making it legal is not an endorsement. Look at the way cigarettes have been demonized by the goverment and by the media. Some kids still smoke, most don't. I doubt those kids who don't smoke today would start shooting heroine or dropping acid after it was legal.

Lastly, I think we all need to listen to Grow More Weed when he says we all need to listen to me! :D


People need to listen to SyntaxHeir and learn some tolerance, live and let live.

[Kitz E Kat]

You make plenty of good point's Syntax, I forgot that Coke had indeed got coke in it for many years before it was removed.
It would be worth trying out , every other attempt to stop drug's has failed.
Make them legal for a time and see what happen's, history would call them the "happy years" :-)

Oi, Grow More Weed , please stop giving Syntax a big head , thanks :-)

[SyntaxHeir]

Oi, Grow More Weed , please stop giving Syntax a big head , thanks :-)

Muahahaha! Waaay too late for that!

I'm looking forward to completing your training. In time, you will call me master.

[GrowMoreWeed]

Oi, Grow More Weed , please stop giving Syntax a big head , thanks :-)
I was talking about his earlier post but he just ran with it. Next thing you know, he's at the Dr Evil School of Villainous Laughs™!

[SyntaxHeir]

I was talking about his earlier post but he just ran with it. Next thing you know, he's at the Dr Evil School of Villainous Laughs™!

With frickin' LASER BEAMS on their heads!!