TreeFrog
4th May 2009, 04:44
Ok so it has come to this.
I have been investigating the world of making Hydrogen and Oxygen. The ultimate aim is to see what effect, if any, it has on a car engine and its fuel consumption and emissions.
I started writing a PM to the someone and thought ... Naa this needs a thread.
So here you go.
HHO Its the Hydrogen + Hydrogen and Oxygen electrolysis thing yes.
Water or H2O turned into its gasses 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen, HHO.
Scam :017: !... well depends on how much you think its going to do in the first place..
Its not free energy, not even as free as wind power. Electrical energy is used to split the water and from what I understand so far, its not very efficient in terms of the work you can do with the gas in comparison to what could be done with the original electrical energy. Not that electrical energy is "original" it has to be made too. !! lol
However its fun to fill up balloons and such at least.
There are many ways of making Hydrogen and although electrolysis is considered inefficient it is not difficult and the proportions of Hydrogen and Oxygen needed are exact as it comes from water and when burnt becomes water again.
The theory in relation to cars engines as I understand it is this:
The alternator charges the battery. If something electrical has high demands then you can feel or hear and see the extra load on the engine.
However if some of that load is helping to generate a gas mix that goes into the air intake creating a cleaner and more efficient burn of the carbon fuel, then perhaps there is an advantage to be gained in getting that extra bit out of the carbon fuel. Perhaps that extra energy released from the carbon fuel is comparable or even ever so slightly larger than the energy used to split the water. In my mind its not anything like over unity, its an air conditioner for an internal combustion engine.
The way Hydrogen burns is much faster than a carbon fuel.
If the proportions of Hydrogen and Oxygen right (2:1) and mixed evenly, then when ignited there is a very spontaneous reaction combining the gasses ultimately to give water. First there is the explosion (due to the heat, at lest 560 deg Centigrade or 1040 Fahrenheit ) then there is the implosion (due to the turning of a gas into a liquid ) The resulting sound is a very crisp SNAP or CRACK as the shock wave propagates.
Think of vaporised petrol and air making a "WOOFFP" type of burn that you can see and then of Hydrogen and Oxygen giving a faster than the eye "SNAP" type of burn. It can burn very hot (2660 if in a flame) though its so fast in this situation you dont see or feel the results of that heat around it in small quantities. The molecules of anything mixed up with it would experience some heat though.
Now if you combine the two (vaporised petrol with enough air for its own burning and Hydrogen and Oxygen in the right proportions or 2:1) you at least get a more accelerated and uniform burn of the carbon fuel (petrol)
Thats the theory as I understand it anyway. !!!!
Without much work on the internet you can find hundreds of articles and videos related to this and the interesting side areas. I like the melting of rocks with the HHO torch. :-) they look amazing in the vids.
There is also a lot of conspiracy theory to go with it. Basicly the conspiracy theorys seem to boil down to this...
If there is a better technology available then why is it not being used. The two answers are these:
First and most easy is "there is no better technology"
Second and with huge implication is "Its there but it makes more money if its not used"
Argmunet for the second pont being this:
Would you as a car engine manufacture make an engine that did its job as good as it could? "Well yes" I hear everyone say.
Actually even if you would like to make an amazing 99.99% efficient engine, it's of no relevance as all you need to do is sell engines.
Hey you might even get paid more from fuel companies to not make that engine then if you developed it and sold it!!
So the extrapolation goes on. Its a good healthy conspiracy theory as you can never know what the answer is.
While I dont deny possibilities and even probabilities I find conspiracy theories actually very boring and depressing :101: after a while so this thread is in recreation.. much more fun. :-) :D
Anyone find any interesting links then put them up.
I have been investigating the world of making Hydrogen and Oxygen. The ultimate aim is to see what effect, if any, it has on a car engine and its fuel consumption and emissions.
I started writing a PM to the someone and thought ... Naa this needs a thread.
So here you go.
HHO Its the Hydrogen + Hydrogen and Oxygen electrolysis thing yes.
Water or H2O turned into its gasses 2 Hydrogen and 1 Oxygen, HHO.
Scam :017: !... well depends on how much you think its going to do in the first place..
Its not free energy, not even as free as wind power. Electrical energy is used to split the water and from what I understand so far, its not very efficient in terms of the work you can do with the gas in comparison to what could be done with the original electrical energy. Not that electrical energy is "original" it has to be made too. !! lol
However its fun to fill up balloons and such at least.
There are many ways of making Hydrogen and although electrolysis is considered inefficient it is not difficult and the proportions of Hydrogen and Oxygen needed are exact as it comes from water and when burnt becomes water again.
The theory in relation to cars engines as I understand it is this:
The alternator charges the battery. If something electrical has high demands then you can feel or hear and see the extra load on the engine.
However if some of that load is helping to generate a gas mix that goes into the air intake creating a cleaner and more efficient burn of the carbon fuel, then perhaps there is an advantage to be gained in getting that extra bit out of the carbon fuel. Perhaps that extra energy released from the carbon fuel is comparable or even ever so slightly larger than the energy used to split the water. In my mind its not anything like over unity, its an air conditioner for an internal combustion engine.
The way Hydrogen burns is much faster than a carbon fuel.
If the proportions of Hydrogen and Oxygen right (2:1) and mixed evenly, then when ignited there is a very spontaneous reaction combining the gasses ultimately to give water. First there is the explosion (due to the heat, at lest 560 deg Centigrade or 1040 Fahrenheit ) then there is the implosion (due to the turning of a gas into a liquid ) The resulting sound is a very crisp SNAP or CRACK as the shock wave propagates.
Think of vaporised petrol and air making a "WOOFFP" type of burn that you can see and then of Hydrogen and Oxygen giving a faster than the eye "SNAP" type of burn. It can burn very hot (2660 if in a flame) though its so fast in this situation you dont see or feel the results of that heat around it in small quantities. The molecules of anything mixed up with it would experience some heat though.
Now if you combine the two (vaporised petrol with enough air for its own burning and Hydrogen and Oxygen in the right proportions or 2:1) you at least get a more accelerated and uniform burn of the carbon fuel (petrol)
Thats the theory as I understand it anyway. !!!!
Without much work on the internet you can find hundreds of articles and videos related to this and the interesting side areas. I like the melting of rocks with the HHO torch. :-) they look amazing in the vids.
There is also a lot of conspiracy theory to go with it. Basicly the conspiracy theorys seem to boil down to this...
If there is a better technology available then why is it not being used. The two answers are these:
First and most easy is "there is no better technology"
Second and with huge implication is "Its there but it makes more money if its not used"
Argmunet for the second pont being this:
Would you as a car engine manufacture make an engine that did its job as good as it could? "Well yes" I hear everyone say.
Actually even if you would like to make an amazing 99.99% efficient engine, it's of no relevance as all you need to do is sell engines.
Hey you might even get paid more from fuel companies to not make that engine then if you developed it and sold it!!
So the extrapolation goes on. Its a good healthy conspiracy theory as you can never know what the answer is.
While I dont deny possibilities and even probabilities I find conspiracy theories actually very boring and depressing :101: after a while so this thread is in recreation.. much more fun. :-) :D
Anyone find any interesting links then put them up.